“Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”
— Analects, XV, 23
JUDAISM:
“What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire law, all the rest is commentary.”
–The Talmud, Shabbat31a
BUDDHISM:
“Hurt not others in ways that your yourself would find hurtful.”
–Undana-varqa: 518
CHRISTIANITY:
“As ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.”
–Luke 6:31
BAHA’I:
“It is our wish and desire that every one of you may become a source of all goodness unto men, and an example of uprightness to mankind. Beware lest you prefer yourself above your neighbors .”
–Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, 315
ZOROASTRIANISM:
“That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good of its own self.”
–Dadistan-I-Dinik, 94:5
HINDUISM:
“This is the sum of all true righteousness: deal with others as thou wouldst thyself be dealt by. Do nothing to thy neighbor which thou wouldst not have him do to thee after.”
–The Mahabharata
ISLAM:
“No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires of himself.”
–Sunnah
TAOISM:
“The good man ought to pity the malignant tendencies of others; to rejoice over their excellence; to help them in their straits; to regard their gains as if they were his own, and their losses in the same way.”
"we cannot fully celebrate anything that leaves a person alienated from their Creator"
This is stated as if it is a fact. There isn't any examples or reasons given to support the statement. In reality countless numbers of people have experienced the exact opposite.
And this: "But one cannot explore the world of psychedelics very long before the topic of entities comes up."
Again this is stated as fact. It isn't. I'm assuming that it is a reference to entities that some report during DMT experiences. Not all psychedelics are the same. DMT is a disociative psychedelic and is very different than psilocybin and other psychedelics. The statement quoted above would be similar to saying all colors are blue.
The story of Amanda also seems to paint all psychedelics as being the same or at least very similar ro DMT. They are not.
I very much agree with this: "There is simply no easy chemical cure for our problems." Psychedelics aren't a cure. Some can be tools but that requires preparation and should not be taken lightly. Many tools can be used in a positive or negative way. A hammer can help to build a house but it can also be used for vandalism.
As I read further I saw that you view the Bible as authoritative. I consider myself to be a Christian. I have studied most of the world's religions. The Bible was not handed to us by a hand coming out of the sky. It was written by inspired and some perhaps not so inspired people. What was accepted as being worthy of inclusion was decisions made by men. You may want to look into the gnostic gospels.
You lost me when comparing Christianity to other spirituality. A closer examination might actually enrich your understanding of Christianity. You say this: " these practices make no personal moral demands. There are no ten commandments, no golden rule, no ultimate moral Judge."
That is so off base. It is chauvinism. Remember "There are many mansions in my Father's house."
Referencing Christianity he wrote " these practices make no personal moral demands. There are no ten commandments, no golden rule, no ultimate moral Judge."
Just to be clear, that description of "no moral demands..." etc was referring not to any form of Christianity but to a kind of cafeteria-style new age spirituality which draws on multiple traditions, picking and choosing what seems good. The use of psychedelics in that way provides an exciting experience but makes no definite moral demands. I probably should not have included "no golden rule" since, as you pointed out elsewhere, this is an almost universal moral idea.
I'm not saying that such people are not morally upright or do not themselves have strong moral convictions. I'm just saying that the practices themselves are (to my knowledge) not concerned with that, and therefore are more compatible with the moral relativism of our age than stodgy ol' Christianity. Hope that makes sense.
I think that most spiritual traditions have moral convictions as is evidenced by the golden rule.
As for the cafeteria style I think I understand what you mean. That is quite different than drawing from the commonalities of different traditions.
I agree that the use of psychedelics can provide amusing, fun, or unusual experiences that have little if anything to do with developing a moral code. That however isn't always the case. There is a lot involved. I have known many people who have used psychedelics (I'm old - a senior). Some did it for kicks. Sort of like going to an amusement park. Some started that way and it lead to more. Some used them as a tool for self discovery that lead to deep life changing spiritual experiences. I certainly would not advise anyone to dabble in psychedelics. I think a person needs to be fairly emotionally healthy and have a period of preparation. They can certainly have negative effects.....abreactions where a massive amount of uncinscious material becomes conscious rapidly which can be overwhelming in a way that can cause harm.
That said they can also be tools that assist with transformation. Just as meditation, prayer, or other practices can be a tool. I've studied transformational experiences for decades. Many different paths can lead to the same place. My master's thesis was on mystical transformational spiritual experiences, specifically death and rebirth experiences. That was written long ago. I've continued to learn.
I'm pantheistic. To me nothing else exist except God and the problems of the world stem from a lack of recognition of What Is.
I would love to learn about this thesis and publish a summary or essay on it. You have a depth of knowledge that is truly unique and I’m interested in learning more
As interesting as Brian Muraresku's idea is, even by his own admission the actual 'evidence' for it is very slim indeed. See his answers in this interview:
The evidence for their use in pagan antiquity is very substantial and not surprising. But for Christianity it remains one isolated speck of evidence from a single location in Spain. In contrast, the explicit teaching and practice of the church across the world and throughout two thousand years is pretty clearly against this idea. If it existed among Christians, current historical knowledge would have to insist that it was an exceedingly rare phenomenon rather than the norm.
Appreciate the response! And maybe "quite a bit" was an exaggeration but outside the temple in Spain there was also psychedelic compounds found in wine jars in Pompeii right as Christianity arrived there.
You're right though, by no means are these direct linkages. However, this is also the first time these tests have been done to look for these compounds and Brian mentions he's confident they'll find more
Yes the evidence for early Christian use of entheogens is scant at best but it is a possibility. There is evidence that a psychoactive was used at Eleusis for over 1,500 years. This drink called kykeon was made at a certain time of the year that coincided with the grain harvest. Grain that was likely infected with ergot which is very visible. It contains Lysergic Acid Amides and is psychoactive. It is possible that the early Christian bread was made with this ergot.
It is total conjecture and there isn't any proof. If it was the case it would not have necessarily survived as a tradition even be mentioned. Other aspects didn't survive. One example is the status of women which the later church viewed as not being equal to men which was a far cry from how Paul spoke of Phoebe.
The Gospel of Thomas as well as othe gnostic gospel paint a picture of early Christians that was excluded by the organized church. The interesting thing about the gnostic gospels is that they were lost for well over 1,500 years which meant no changing or doctoring during that period which is not the case with what most now call the gospels of the New Testament.
An interesting book by a scholar who studied the origins of the gospels is titled "Misquoting Jesus". A great book in my opinion. Unfortunately the author (who's name escapes me at the moment) moved from being a fundamentalist Christian to an Atheist as a result of his studies. It could have lead him to something greater in my opinion.
You make some interesting points, Mr. Professor. Would be interested in engaging more on my live podcast in some capacity. Phil and I are going to be debating/discussing his arguments next week some day in the evening. Please join us. Live on my Callin podcast. Still figuring out day and time
Good essay for those who are drawn to theologies that are centered around a singular anthropomorphic, providential God.
Much like Rav's editorial comment-- "My prior beliefs and views are the product of my environment and the wiring of my mind that prompts me to certain philosophies and paths over others" -- I find it natural to align with Thomas Moore's religion of one's own, stoic and eastern philosophies and native indigenous wisdom to live a flourishing eudaimonic life, psychedelic or not.
The Golden Rule is not specific to Christianity.
CONFUCIANISM:
“Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.”
— Analects, XV, 23
JUDAISM:
“What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire law, all the rest is commentary.”
–The Talmud, Shabbat31a
BUDDHISM:
“Hurt not others in ways that your yourself would find hurtful.”
–Undana-varqa: 518
CHRISTIANITY:
“As ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.”
–Luke 6:31
BAHA’I:
“It is our wish and desire that every one of you may become a source of all goodness unto men, and an example of uprightness to mankind. Beware lest you prefer yourself above your neighbors .”
–Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, 315
ZOROASTRIANISM:
“That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good of its own self.”
–Dadistan-I-Dinik, 94:5
HINDUISM:
“This is the sum of all true righteousness: deal with others as thou wouldst thyself be dealt by. Do nothing to thy neighbor which thou wouldst not have him do to thee after.”
–The Mahabharata
ISLAM:
“No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires of himself.”
–Sunnah
TAOISM:
“The good man ought to pity the malignant tendencies of others; to rejoice over their excellence; to help them in their straits; to regard their gains as if they were his own, and their losses in the same way.”
–The Thai-shang. 3
Indeed, the image of God in humankind has developed this beautiful moral idea in many places and at many times. If only we all lived it out better !
"we cannot fully celebrate anything that leaves a person alienated from their Creator"
This is stated as if it is a fact. There isn't any examples or reasons given to support the statement. In reality countless numbers of people have experienced the exact opposite.
And this: "But one cannot explore the world of psychedelics very long before the topic of entities comes up."
Again this is stated as fact. It isn't. I'm assuming that it is a reference to entities that some report during DMT experiences. Not all psychedelics are the same. DMT is a disociative psychedelic and is very different than psilocybin and other psychedelics. The statement quoted above would be similar to saying all colors are blue.
The story of Amanda also seems to paint all psychedelics as being the same or at least very similar ro DMT. They are not.
I very much agree with this: "There is simply no easy chemical cure for our problems." Psychedelics aren't a cure. Some can be tools but that requires preparation and should not be taken lightly. Many tools can be used in a positive or negative way. A hammer can help to build a house but it can also be used for vandalism.
As I read further I saw that you view the Bible as authoritative. I consider myself to be a Christian. I have studied most of the world's religions. The Bible was not handed to us by a hand coming out of the sky. It was written by inspired and some perhaps not so inspired people. What was accepted as being worthy of inclusion was decisions made by men. You may want to look into the gnostic gospels.
You lost me when comparing Christianity to other spirituality. A closer examination might actually enrich your understanding of Christianity. You say this: " these practices make no personal moral demands. There are no ten commandments, no golden rule, no ultimate moral Judge."
That is so off base. It is chauvinism. Remember "There are many mansions in my Father's house."
Very thoughtful. Agree 100%. But what do all the scriptures you referenced to have to do with Phil’s arguments?
Referencing Christianity he wrote " these practices make no personal moral demands. There are no ten commandments, no golden rule, no ultimate moral Judge."
Just to be clear, that description of "no moral demands..." etc was referring not to any form of Christianity but to a kind of cafeteria-style new age spirituality which draws on multiple traditions, picking and choosing what seems good. The use of psychedelics in that way provides an exciting experience but makes no definite moral demands. I probably should not have included "no golden rule" since, as you pointed out elsewhere, this is an almost universal moral idea.
I'm not saying that such people are not morally upright or do not themselves have strong moral convictions. I'm just saying that the practices themselves are (to my knowledge) not concerned with that, and therefore are more compatible with the moral relativism of our age than stodgy ol' Christianity. Hope that makes sense.
I think that most spiritual traditions have moral convictions as is evidenced by the golden rule.
As for the cafeteria style I think I understand what you mean. That is quite different than drawing from the commonalities of different traditions.
I agree that the use of psychedelics can provide amusing, fun, or unusual experiences that have little if anything to do with developing a moral code. That however isn't always the case. There is a lot involved. I have known many people who have used psychedelics (I'm old - a senior). Some did it for kicks. Sort of like going to an amusement park. Some started that way and it lead to more. Some used them as a tool for self discovery that lead to deep life changing spiritual experiences. I certainly would not advise anyone to dabble in psychedelics. I think a person needs to be fairly emotionally healthy and have a period of preparation. They can certainly have negative effects.....abreactions where a massive amount of uncinscious material becomes conscious rapidly which can be overwhelming in a way that can cause harm.
That said they can also be tools that assist with transformation. Just as meditation, prayer, or other practices can be a tool. I've studied transformational experiences for decades. Many different paths can lead to the same place. My master's thesis was on mystical transformational spiritual experiences, specifically death and rebirth experiences. That was written long ago. I've continued to learn.
I'm pantheistic. To me nothing else exist except God and the problems of the world stem from a lack of recognition of What Is.
I would love to learn about this thesis and publish a summary or essay on it. You have a depth of knowledge that is truly unique and I’m interested in learning more
It was long enough ago so that it was actually typed with a typewriter so I don't have an electronic copy.
>The idea of using a drug to gain wisdom or insight is foreign to both the Bible and historic Christianity
There's actually quite a bit of evidence to the contrary pointing towards psychedelics playing a role in early Christianity as part of the eucharist
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0818QJHKF/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Thanks for reading.
As interesting as Brian Muraresku's idea is, even by his own admission the actual 'evidence' for it is very slim indeed. See his answers in this interview:
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/vox-conversations-podcast/2021/3/4/21759683/christianity-psychedelics-brian-muraresku-the-immortality-key
The evidence for their use in pagan antiquity is very substantial and not surprising. But for Christianity it remains one isolated speck of evidence from a single location in Spain. In contrast, the explicit teaching and practice of the church across the world and throughout two thousand years is pretty clearly against this idea. If it existed among Christians, current historical knowledge would have to insist that it was an exceedingly rare phenomenon rather than the norm.
Appreciate the response! And maybe "quite a bit" was an exaggeration but outside the temple in Spain there was also psychedelic compounds found in wine jars in Pompeii right as Christianity arrived there.
You're right though, by no means are these direct linkages. However, this is also the first time these tests have been done to look for these compounds and Brian mentions he's confident they'll find more
Yes the evidence for early Christian use of entheogens is scant at best but it is a possibility. There is evidence that a psychoactive was used at Eleusis for over 1,500 years. This drink called kykeon was made at a certain time of the year that coincided with the grain harvest. Grain that was likely infected with ergot which is very visible. It contains Lysergic Acid Amides and is psychoactive. It is possible that the early Christian bread was made with this ergot.
It is total conjecture and there isn't any proof. If it was the case it would not have necessarily survived as a tradition even be mentioned. Other aspects didn't survive. One example is the status of women which the later church viewed as not being equal to men which was a far cry from how Paul spoke of Phoebe.
The Gospel of Thomas as well as othe gnostic gospel paint a picture of early Christians that was excluded by the organized church. The interesting thing about the gnostic gospels is that they were lost for well over 1,500 years which meant no changing or doctoring during that period which is not the case with what most now call the gospels of the New Testament.
An interesting book by a scholar who studied the origins of the gospels is titled "Misquoting Jesus". A great book in my opinion. Unfortunately the author (who's name escapes me at the moment) moved from being a fundamentalist Christian to an Atheist as a result of his studies. It could have lead him to something greater in my opinion.
You make some interesting points, Mr. Professor. Would be interested in engaging more on my live podcast in some capacity. Phil and I are going to be debating/discussing his arguments next week some day in the evening. Please join us. Live on my Callin podcast. Still figuring out day and time
Thank you for the invite but I will need to pass. I have a very busy schedule next week that includes a 24/7 on call rotation for the week.
No worries. What is it that you do (if u don't mind sharing)?
Brief answer is: help people
Good essay for those who are drawn to theologies that are centered around a singular anthropomorphic, providential God.
Much like Rav's editorial comment-- "My prior beliefs and views are the product of my environment and the wiring of my mind that prompts me to certain philosophies and paths over others" -- I find it natural to align with Thomas Moore's religion of one's own, stoic and eastern philosophies and native indigenous wisdom to live a flourishing eudaimonic life, psychedelic or not.